Posts by Separation of Powers

97

First post

by thedog1 in

jw
friends

this is a very strange thing for me to do.

i have been an active witness for over 25 years.

i currently serve as an elder and i conduct the watchtower study.

I can understand your apprehension. Posting on here for the first time is difficult for those still in. As an elder, your assessment of what might happen lest you be found out is correct. Please tread lightly when it comes to your concerns regarding the ORG. Many, even those you think might agree with you, are so captive that they may throw you under the bus,

I, for one, served for quite some time. I got to the point, like you, that I could no longer teach something I did not fully believe. In time, unfortunately, the disbelief became intolerance and now I literally become sick by the salesmanship of the ORG. I see through the veil and veneer.

As for your feelings, the reality I have seen in my case is...once you do not accept it, it all begins to unravel. Little things that you mentally covered over begin to peak through your subconscious and poke at you, sometimes incessantly. I feel for you and your situation. What you may begin to experience, if you are anything like many of the ex-elders on this forum, may well be a systematic breakdown of your belief system. Be patient. Be careful. Be resolved.

Kind Regards,

SOP

51

Advise needed please

by EdenOne in

dear forumites, i need your advise please.. i would like to write a letter to the world headquarters of the jehovah's witnesses regarding a subject that i've published an article recently.

i would like to draw the attention of the gb to said article, which i will send in print form (therefore, no attention would be drawn to the website where it was published).. naturally, because i am a jehovah's witness in good standing in the congregation and what i'll be discussing in my letter will be a dissenting view from the official doctrine/practice, i want to protect my identity and i don't want to be harassed by elders or subjected to any sort of judicial investigation.

nevertheless, i would be very interested in reading their response (if any) to my letter.. how can i do that?

Separation of Powers

I agree with everyone else's comment.

The procedure for a letter to Bethel is quite simple. Goes to a mail clearing house. Sorted through to which department. If it does not specifically state which department, then someone opens it up, starts to skim through it, identifies where it should go and forwards it. If it is committee related, it will go to the service desk, someone will open it and decide how it should be handled. Typically, it will be pushed aside if it is simply a letter trying to address some mistake of the organization. Typically, it will NEVER get to the GB even if you addressed it to them personally. The service desk, if the letter is perceived "apostate" or "contrary" will flag it for follow up NOT to the individual, but to his/her elder body to determine if the person should be dealt with and how.

So, I applaud your desire to make your position known, but the hierarchy is well defended from the laymen.

just a thought,

SOP

35

So what if they were wrong?

by DS211 in

this is a reply ireceived from a poster on another forum.

"actually the vast majority of interpretations of prophecy are absolutely spot on.. .

people harp on over this and that that was wrong 50 years ago, but today jehovah's witnesses have all the bible's prophecies pretty much figured out in their entirety.. .

Separation of Powers

"So what if they were wrong?" Listen, if I am investing my life savings with a financial planner, I try to make sure that he is competent (or she). If he is "wrong" than all my life's savings is in jeopardy of being lost. With the org, if they are wrong than my life is in jeopardy of being wasted. Being wrong is unacceptable and should be for God's one true channel.

SOP

178

Honest survey question on effectiveness of 'apostacy'

by Simon in

jw
friends

it seems like lots of people have big dreams of 'destroying the watchtower'.

it's usually linked to a story of how they were wronged and want some revenge.

do these 'in your face' attempts to convince people that the truth isn't the truth really have an effect?.

Separation of Powers

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of the soulless conditions.

It is the opium of the people." Marx

I think everyone here would agree, Simon, that while they were in, they were typically "all in." They accepted the doctrine, even those aspects of the doctrine that made little or no sense because of the "package deal" that Jehovah's Witnesses offer. Other than those raised and indoctrinated to believe (or forced to), those that accepted the doctrine did so, typically, because they were disillusioned with something or other. Their faith in their own religion, their faith in society, their faith in commitment, something arose in their life that moved them to become susceptible to the peculiar nature of JW's. They wanted to believe, they wanted to belong, and learning about "eternal life" and being "special" was exactly what they needed at that time to answer that particular longing.

So, when you ask, does any of this stuff work to get people out? I would say typically no. However, just as there existed susceptibility to move one to accept, there must also exist susceptibility to move one to question. When one starts to see through the "veneer," as Franklin Joseph Rutherford so aptly called it back in the 30's, then the dulling nature of this particular "opiate" loosens its grasp on the believer and they either move to agnosticism or complete disbelief in God.

Just some thoughts,

SOP

30

ARE THEY RAMPING UP THE FEAR MONGERING AGAIN?

by im stuck in in

hi as many of you know i am a born in baptized and in good standing, but mentally out.

when i was a kid it was always you will die soon and terrible pictures of horrid destruction.

then for a number of years not so much.

Separation of Powers

I love the idea of the "birds" being raised again. Back in the late 60's this was all the rage, a real "sign" of how close the end was. As for the "go" bag, well, let's just say that if the Bible's version of Armaggedon is correct, no go bag, no matter how large or well stocked will amount to anything.

Fear is a great tool. It stands apart from reason and moves shallow people to do cowardly things. -

SOP

113

Elders receive a report that I am openly displaying false religious symbol

by confusedandalone in

when you look at the image above what do you see?

a sneaker or an outward display that i am now following after another religious group?.

well yesterday i had a 10 minute conversation with an elder who finally got the balls to call me.

Separation of Powers

Possible replies:

"Well, I am sorry, but I am color blind. I had no idea what colors they were. They all looked muted pink."

" I am studying to be an electrician and the three colors represent a grounded 240v circuit."

"They were on sale and all I could afford after I donated last week's check to the Warwick project."

"They are the colors of a stoplight. So are you telling me I shouldn't respect stoplights because of their blatant religious overtones?"

"They are a metaphor of my spiritual progress. GREEN- I was in and moving along with the spiritual chariot. YELLOW- I started to wake up and slow down in my pace with the chariot and RED- I just simply decided to STOP."

" What? Is there something wrong with the color black? You know, it really ISN'T a color...more of a tone or hue. "

"You should see my socks!"

113

How to accept the actions of the Old Testament God

by confusedandalone in

jw
friends

how are we able to do this.. this is not an attempt to stir the pot or cause confusion but i was sitting here thinking of all the really horrid things that the old testament god did to people.

when i was a jw i just purposely put it to the back of my mind always trying to make an excuse.

when i was in field service and someone would ask me about it i would just change the subject.. however i have been reading alot of info lately here about how wonderful jesus is and how he is a direct representation of what god the father would be.

Separation of Powers

That, my friend, is the ultimate question!

If one is to believe that the Bible is inspired, then one MUST believe and accept the actions of the Supreme Being as being just and right. I love how many, not just the organization, strive to harmonize actions that are blatantly jealous, petty, cruel, or sadistic, to the same God of which Jesus spoke.

One of the principal stories, besides of course the story in Judges 19 of the concubine that is brutally raped and dies, then cut into 12 pieces and sent to the twelve tribes, is the story of the Judge, that's right "JUDGE" Jepthah. I know the organization has tried to discount the actual words of this story, but many jewish scholars would argue that when Jepthah said, "whatever comes out to meet me will be offered up as a burnt offering," he meant it. Therefore, we have this innocent girl come meet her warrior father and he offers her up to the Supreme Being. There is NO scriptural evidence that THAT did not happen just as he had stated. None. In fact, the Bible states that the virgin girls cried for her every year...

Try to reconcile THAT with your New Testament God of love.

SOP

15

Sometimes you just want to scream

by Separation of Powers in

well, i have been posting here on and off for a while now.

it is good to see the progress that so many have made.

i have appreciated your experiences, your humour, your struggles, etc.. as i sit here today, i realize that i have made progress as well.

Separation of Powers

Well, I have been posting here on and off for a while now. It is good to see the progress that so many have made. I have appreciated your experiences, your humour, your struggles, etc.

As I sit here today, I realize that I have made progress as well. Sure, not to the extent of some on this forum, but, all the same...progress. But my problem, to tell you the truth, is that it isn't fast enough. You see, I have always been a "producer." A "get things done" personality that when faced with a problem I find the solution and then attack it head on. With this, though, this whole "witness" thing, I am getting anxious. I look around at the hall and see faces of people that nod their heads and raise their hands, yet, I see no semblance of understanding or even caring to. I hear some of the canned responses to questions, I hear complete fabrications of revisionism spouted off as fact and I am about to scream.

Now, as many of you, I realize just what that "scream" will bring about. It's repercussions will be felt for the rest of my life and those of my family. But, I am at the point where I am having tremendous difficulty contending with the internal struggle. I feel like the character in the painting The Scream by Edvard Munch, ready to cry out, yet too contemplative to do so.

Sorry for the rant, I think many know of what I speak.

SOP

16

what have you learned since leaving ?

by man in black in

jw
friends

since leaving the jw religion,what can you say that you have learned about life/people in a positive way that you probably would have never experienced.

if you had remained a witness ?.

my story is regarding this :.

Separation of Powers

man in black,

I have learned that no matter what you have done for this organization, no matter what you have done for the brothers, no matter what sacrifices you may have made along the way, when you are sick and laying on your death bed, there will only be a handful of people, typically family, that will even care.

Sure there may be a large group that attend the funeral, but their reason (in my estimation) is that they feel obligated and are concerned that others will "notice" if they aren't there. After its over, they won't call, they won't drop by, they won't "help out." You are completely, totally, and utterly on your own.

It is all part of the process of belonging to the organization. No one really has a true and meaningful relationship with anyone else. It is all dependent on something else. It is, again in my opinion, the reason why Paul stated that there would be "no natural affection." I have come to believe that where love is preached loneliness exists because why do you need to preach love if Christ's followers were recognizably "loving."

A friend on mine once told me when he left the organization that he no longer had the desire to live forever. I was confused and asked him "why?" He said, "Why would I want to live forever with a bunch of people who don't care about me now?" I have learned the value of that perspective.

SOP

30

New! Borg instruct to report tract placements

by pixel in

there's a new letter coming up next week to be read instructing the publishers to begin reporting the number of tracts placed in the ministry, including copies of kingdom news 38, annual invitations, district handbills and other tracts.

lol.

see, the borg is allegue about numbers, and why on earth do they tell you to start counting placement in the middle of a campaing, like the one they are doing now witk kingdom news 38 and not before it started??.

Separation of Powers

Numbers, numbers, numbers.....